Post by Stanley on Nov 14, 2015 1:37:10 GMT -5
As I've been considering adding artes from Zestiria, I've also been thinking about how my Tales-esque game would play. The way they made the system so expansive in this title got me thinking alot about it actually. So I guess I'll just jot what notes I have so far onto this post for what my ideal Tales battle system would be. I think you'll notice it takes a little bit from practically every game across the series. Though I did my best to think up some original stuff too.
1. Have it be 2D. I really miss the 2D Tales games. A sprite style similar to NDX, Hearts, or even Eternia would work. I also always seem to have more fun fighting in the 2D Titles(and they generally look better and have better animations). Atleast when it comes to gameplay, Namco proved they could still do 2D Tales right with NDX.
2. Roleplay Dolls are an absolute must. Being able to play with any party member at any time without affecting the story is a huge plus, and it makes me wonder why Tales didn't start putting these in every game. Atleast give us Rebirth's' grade shop bonus for unlocking the party early.
3. Combo Command being an accessory you get at the beginning of the game, and/or something you keep with you in NG+. It's fun to use.
4. A sort of stance system. Basically, every character has atleast two different weapon styles that you can swap between. For instance, say a character used a Gunblade, so they have both Gun and Sword Artes, and they're in "Sword Stance." Using a sword arte and then a gun arte would have a different animation than say, doing Gun to Gun or Sword to Sword, and using an arte from a different tree would have you swap automatically to the other stance. This would make you think more about what links properly and make combos more dynamic.
5. The Base-Master-Arcane system started by Symphonia. Not only does it make arte naming and tiering easier, but magic still has that tiering system to this day and yet they keep messing around with physical artes. I'd also like this game to have it be where as you progress, you get skills that eventually let you cancel any arte into any other arte that isn't itself.
6. Unison Attacks and Dual MAs are always welcome. I'm not particularly picky if it's done ToS or Xillia style. Although if this is gonna have the Link system please for the love of all that is good be multiplayer friendly.
7. Throws haven't been seen in forever. Please have atleast one character that uses atleast a few.
8. OTGS EXIST! You might think of this as common sense for the series by this point, but there are a handful of games that have a grand total of no attacks that OTG. If I had my way, I'd make it so that every arte has atleast 1 special property (OTG, Aerial, Knockdown, etc) in order to make combat more dynamic and overall make alot of attacks more useful. Speaking of aerials, let's not have a repeat of Judith where bosses absolutely deny any air combo you try to do, thanks.
9. If there's gonna be synthesis, make it worth it. There are a handful of games where it's a waste of time to customize your weapons outside specific instances. Maybe not make it to the level of Legend of Mana since that'd be utterly insane, but you should be rewarded for bothering to tinker with the system.
10. Hitting enemy weaknesses needs to be important, but not overpowered. ToE handled it pretty well, as does ToZ, but let's not have a repeat of ToX2's'system letting you be able to kill everything in one combo. ToZ also handled it pretty well, I felt.
11. The Strategy system from ToI was great. Please bring that back and expand upon it.
12. Having to keep weapons equipped to learn artes was stupid. Let's never do that again. Also, the slot system needs to return. It's alot more controller friendly and way more useful than the Artes Sphere. Seriously, Tapping a button > Holding it. Maybe we could expand on it so that R1 has you switch to a third arte list? Although R1 tends to be taken up by targeting or something else. Also, maybe have it so that the D-Pad can be another set of shortcuts alongside the R-Stick for even more arte spam(although this would really vary depending on console).
13. Blasphemous as some Tales fans would see it, I actually liked the AC system from ToX. Sure, it needs a little work, but I found to be a nice inbetween for the whole TP vs CC thing. The game in general would need extensive balancing so as to not become a one-combo-kill game though(hi, ToD DC and ToX2). Perhaps also not make it refill instantly?
14. Also, traditional Arte inputs > Graces' one-button inputs. Personal taste, but I like actually being able to select what artes I use at any given time. Sorry, Team Destiny.
15. To make it up to ToG, I like the idea of characters having unique super modes over everyone having a generic Overlimit.
16. Spell combos should definitely be a thing, but it's honestly really tricky to make those possible without them being utterly broken. I like the idea of a higher combo count equaling faster casting speed, but dear god please don't have it be like ToDR where you can just go TWIN BOMB LIGHTNING TWIN BOMB LIGHTNING INSTANT CAST EVERYTHING. On the note of spells, being able to make it so spells only go off at specific combo counts is an awesome mechanic that needs to stay. Congrats on that, Zestiria.
17. Zestiria, I'm sorry, but having quick steps replace artes is dumb. I get WHY it's a thing for the kind of game Zesty is, but considering this'd be more traditional 2D, it's not needed here. So yes, a single line, and not multiple lines. Much as I like the 3-line LMBS, I like the single line better. Sorry, ToR.
18. Windstepping is godlike and needs to be in every game ever. Speaking of which, while being able to teleport between saves is nice, an airship is even better. Please bring those, alongside world maps, back.
19. Much as I like the Ore systems from Legendia and Xillia, I prefer a more traditional mastery/leveling up learning curve.
20. I felt like having Grade be tied to titles was a good idea, as it gives you more incentive to get them, as well as give some assurance of being able to afford all the bonuses you could possibly want. However, I would not be opposed to a traditional Grade system either. As long as they don't treat the Grade shop like they did in the R games where they bundle a bunch of stuff together. You should be able to pick and choose what you want, even if some bonuses could be considered to be related. ToZ's' addition of being able to turn bonuses on and off was fantastic.
21. Artes are mastered after 100 uses, and the amount of combo hits contribute to the usage of the arte. So XXX-Demon Fang would equal 4 uses of Demon Fang. Whereas XXX-Demon Fang-Double Demon Fang would mean 4 uses of Demon Fang and 5 uses of Double Demon Fang. This is something Eternia had that I don't think as been seen since.
22. The difficulty settings would be as follows: Easy(enemies have 0.5x their normal stats), Normal(enemies have their normal stats), Moderate(1.5x stats), Hard(2x), Hardcore(2.5x), and God(3x).
23. The return of alot of classic accessories. Remember when Rebirth Dolls used to exist?
24. Let's not have a repeat of Abyss and Vesperia where you have to get specific skills in order to do the most basic of things(like throwing items and backstepping). All that does is really slow the game down and it's a quick way of making things boring. If they're not gonna be given to you right off the bat, at the very least make it so that they're some of the first Skills you get, and quickly too. In my opinion, holding back basic functions isn't a practice in scaling, it's just annoying.
25. Each character would have one element and would stick to it. It annoys me how in most Tales games, characters who get associated with a specific element always have a handful of moves outside it. Now, I'm not saying that they can't have any no-element attacks, but like not have a repeat of a Fire swordsman having an Ice attack, alright?
26. Being able to adjust the size of your party is another feature that needs to become a mainstay. Also, no forced party members please. Story justification is another story though, I suppose.
27. Come to think of it, we haven't seen Rune Bottles in a long time. Please bring those back.
28. An expansion of the Style system from Innocence. Not only more slots for the various skills you get, but it'd be neat if each Style had a unique thing tied to it. My idea as it stands is that Advance Style gets Burst Artes, Guardian Style gets Parries, Wisdom Style gives you Summons, Technical Style gives you the ability to Dodge, Mystic Style gets Mystic Artes, and Versus Style gets everything and also Motion Canceller in exchange for a stiff breeze being able to kill you.
29. Were Linking to be a thing, I would not have its various mechanics tied to the same gauge as the character's' super modes. I would instead have the Link Gauge be its own thing, and when it reaches the end you either have the option of chaining a bunch of Linked Artes together, or doing a Dual MA. Maybe some sort of inbetween could be found, but it'd be weird to balance.
30. I suppose with the latest Tales games this does need to be stressed; Please make the game multiplayer friendly. Part of the fun in Tales is being able to play it with friends. So please make sure the mechanics and the camera are able to make multiplayer just as fun as single player.
31. Bring back renaming characters. Also implement a feature where we can rename attacks too.
32. While I would like Summons to be a thing, I'm not entirely sure about how they should be handled. Assuming this would be in a game where every character has one element, maybe make it like Eternia where they can have a summon or two as a super attack? Although I suppose the simplest thing would be to just have them as regular attacks or spells ala Phantasia or Xillia. Hmm, another idea maybe is to have them as regular attacks, but if you use them to activate an MA, you get a super version.
33. The game would have two protagonists to choose from, each with a story that's atleast 50% unique and each hero forming their own party. Throughout the adventure they form their own ideas about how to save the world, and by the end, when the Big Bad is defeated, the final boss is the other main party, and the result of the battle determines the ending you get.
34. I'd like for traditional cooking to make a comeback. I felt that ToI handled it well as most of the recipes were actually rather useful. Just make the ingredients cheap I guess.
35. Chats and battle banter are good. Keep those around.
36. Having finished Zestiria, making it so that attacks have both elements and categories is a fantastic idea. Let's keep that around. I also appreciated that, if an attack didn't have a category, it'd offer a different sort of bonus instead. By the way, the elements I'd want are Fire, Wind, Light, Dark, Lightning, Water, Earth, and Void. Much as I love Ice and Time, they can easily be fused into Water and Void, respectively. Sorry Eternia, but your system would be slightly too expansive in this case.
37. I feel sorry for some gamers, since I realized that in this game there'd be 3-6 gauges to keep your eye on. Those being HP, TP, Item, Accel, Link, and AC. The Link Gauge would also be a little more like the Eleth Gauge in ToGf. When it gets full and you hit the botton, the party auto-enters Overlimit and you can spam Link Artes, as well as do Linked Mystic Artes.
38. Being able to swap party members on the fly is a great feature that needs to stay. Although in the ideal game I have in mind it'd only be usable like 50% of the time. Such a shame, really.
39. With the item book being gone in ToZ, I want it to come back.
40. Lots of in-game costumes and attachments. I've noticed that they've been declining in number as the games go on. That needs to stop. Also, attachments having a point system is also stupid and needs to go. Infact, let us have four attachment slots instead of just three or less. I've had a ton of costume ideas that require a fourth piece that can never come to fruition because of it. Granted, I'm not sure how such details would work for a 2D game, but for a 3D one, keep this in mind.
41. Speaking of attachments, letting us recolor them is good. However, this feature needs to extend to the costumes as well. Let us color customize the characters so we can create our own recolors rather than only having one set one per character. This feature is definitely something a 2D game could use.
42. Online play would be nice. Even if it'd be hard to program for being able to play the plot with friends online, at the very least give us an online arena. That way people can just join a room and might monsters and bosses together.
43. Two new Styles to be added; EX Style which lets you do EX Attacks ala Street Fighter, and Assist Style, which lets you call Assists ala ToH.
44. More stuff from Zestiria: I like everyone having a support/healing set so that way there's no "main" healer, as it allows for more freedom in party building. Also, no forced party members. However, what I didn't like was how you couldn't heal a party if they were status'd(unless the spell also cured that status effect). The fatigue system was also interesting, but I'm not sure if I'd wanna keep it around, unless maybe we started getting Telepipes from PSO.
45. I'd want a variety of composers. Zestiria did good by bringing back Go Shiina, but I'd want it taken a step further by having a handful of composers like how Tales of VS. has. Motoi Sakuraba, Shinji Tamura, Ryota Furuya, Go Shiina, Kazuhiro Nakamura, Ryo Watanabe, Yukiko Yamamoto, LindaAI-CUE, and any other composers who've worked on the series are all welcome to return.
46. The Cameo Battle would be Reid, Garr, Hilda, and Mint, with the fight having a ton of references to the games they came from. Thank you for the inspiration, Abyss. Also, the 4 Boss cameos would be Walter, Asch, Schwann, Lambda!Richard. Thanks for that, ToV.
47. The return of WHIS. If there are any other minigames, make sure they don't suck.
48. Some other gameplay features: Personally I'm a sucker for dynamic kills on bosses and also story related cutscenes during battle. Zestiria brought these back, but I'd like to see them expanded upon a little. Also, make Taunting more practical by not only raising the gauges the character has, but also by increasing a stat(maybe rip off of SFIII: 3rd Strike and make them stack up to four times). Taunts aggroing opponents is also a given. I'd also suggest a replay editor, but that'd be more for 3D Tales I suppose.
49. Can't believe I nearly forgot this, but being able to program your AI like in the Radiant games and in Innocence is fantastic and needs to stay forever. Alfa-Systems had alot of great ideas, and they should get brought back to introduce even more. Only thing is, let all the options be available from the start, rather than unlocked over time.
50. Characters having unique taunts when facing particular bosses. Better to have them say something unique to their "rival" rather than just parroting the generic taunts over and over.
I might update this in the future, but this is all I can think of at the moment.
1. Have it be 2D. I really miss the 2D Tales games. A sprite style similar to NDX, Hearts, or even Eternia would work. I also always seem to have more fun fighting in the 2D Titles(and they generally look better and have better animations). Atleast when it comes to gameplay, Namco proved they could still do 2D Tales right with NDX.
2. Roleplay Dolls are an absolute must. Being able to play with any party member at any time without affecting the story is a huge plus, and it makes me wonder why Tales didn't start putting these in every game. Atleast give us Rebirth's' grade shop bonus for unlocking the party early.
3. Combo Command being an accessory you get at the beginning of the game, and/or something you keep with you in NG+. It's fun to use.
4. A sort of stance system. Basically, every character has atleast two different weapon styles that you can swap between. For instance, say a character used a Gunblade, so they have both Gun and Sword Artes, and they're in "Sword Stance." Using a sword arte and then a gun arte would have a different animation than say, doing Gun to Gun or Sword to Sword, and using an arte from a different tree would have you swap automatically to the other stance. This would make you think more about what links properly and make combos more dynamic.
5. The Base-Master-Arcane system started by Symphonia. Not only does it make arte naming and tiering easier, but magic still has that tiering system to this day and yet they keep messing around with physical artes. I'd also like this game to have it be where as you progress, you get skills that eventually let you cancel any arte into any other arte that isn't itself.
6. Unison Attacks and Dual MAs are always welcome. I'm not particularly picky if it's done ToS or Xillia style. Although if this is gonna have the Link system please for the love of all that is good be multiplayer friendly.
7. Throws haven't been seen in forever. Please have atleast one character that uses atleast a few.
8. OTGS EXIST! You might think of this as common sense for the series by this point, but there are a handful of games that have a grand total of no attacks that OTG. If I had my way, I'd make it so that every arte has atleast 1 special property (OTG, Aerial, Knockdown, etc) in order to make combat more dynamic and overall make alot of attacks more useful. Speaking of aerials, let's not have a repeat of Judith where bosses absolutely deny any air combo you try to do, thanks.
9. If there's gonna be synthesis, make it worth it. There are a handful of games where it's a waste of time to customize your weapons outside specific instances. Maybe not make it to the level of Legend of Mana since that'd be utterly insane, but you should be rewarded for bothering to tinker with the system.
10. Hitting enemy weaknesses needs to be important, but not overpowered. ToE handled it pretty well, as does ToZ, but let's not have a repeat of ToX2's'system letting you be able to kill everything in one combo. ToZ also handled it pretty well, I felt.
11. The Strategy system from ToI was great. Please bring that back and expand upon it.
12. Having to keep weapons equipped to learn artes was stupid. Let's never do that again. Also, the slot system needs to return. It's alot more controller friendly and way more useful than the Artes Sphere. Seriously, Tapping a button > Holding it. Maybe we could expand on it so that R1 has you switch to a third arte list? Although R1 tends to be taken up by targeting or something else. Also, maybe have it so that the D-Pad can be another set of shortcuts alongside the R-Stick for even more arte spam(although this would really vary depending on console).
13. Blasphemous as some Tales fans would see it, I actually liked the AC system from ToX. Sure, it needs a little work, but I found to be a nice inbetween for the whole TP vs CC thing. The game in general would need extensive balancing so as to not become a one-combo-kill game though(hi, ToD DC and ToX2). Perhaps also not make it refill instantly?
14. Also, traditional Arte inputs > Graces' one-button inputs. Personal taste, but I like actually being able to select what artes I use at any given time. Sorry, Team Destiny.
15. To make it up to ToG, I like the idea of characters having unique super modes over everyone having a generic Overlimit.
16. Spell combos should definitely be a thing, but it's honestly really tricky to make those possible without them being utterly broken. I like the idea of a higher combo count equaling faster casting speed, but dear god please don't have it be like ToDR where you can just go TWIN BOMB LIGHTNING TWIN BOMB LIGHTNING INSTANT CAST EVERYTHING. On the note of spells, being able to make it so spells only go off at specific combo counts is an awesome mechanic that needs to stay. Congrats on that, Zestiria.
17. Zestiria, I'm sorry, but having quick steps replace artes is dumb. I get WHY it's a thing for the kind of game Zesty is, but considering this'd be more traditional 2D, it's not needed here. So yes, a single line, and not multiple lines. Much as I like the 3-line LMBS, I like the single line better. Sorry, ToR.
18. Windstepping is godlike and needs to be in every game ever. Speaking of which, while being able to teleport between saves is nice, an airship is even better. Please bring those, alongside world maps, back.
19. Much as I like the Ore systems from Legendia and Xillia, I prefer a more traditional mastery/leveling up learning curve.
20. I felt like having Grade be tied to titles was a good idea, as it gives you more incentive to get them, as well as give some assurance of being able to afford all the bonuses you could possibly want. However, I would not be opposed to a traditional Grade system either. As long as they don't treat the Grade shop like they did in the R games where they bundle a bunch of stuff together. You should be able to pick and choose what you want, even if some bonuses could be considered to be related. ToZ's' addition of being able to turn bonuses on and off was fantastic.
21. Artes are mastered after 100 uses, and the amount of combo hits contribute to the usage of the arte. So XXX-Demon Fang would equal 4 uses of Demon Fang. Whereas XXX-Demon Fang-Double Demon Fang would mean 4 uses of Demon Fang and 5 uses of Double Demon Fang. This is something Eternia had that I don't think as been seen since.
22. The difficulty settings would be as follows: Easy(enemies have 0.5x their normal stats), Normal(enemies have their normal stats), Moderate(1.5x stats), Hard(2x), Hardcore(2.5x), and God(3x).
23. The return of alot of classic accessories. Remember when Rebirth Dolls used to exist?
24. Let's not have a repeat of Abyss and Vesperia where you have to get specific skills in order to do the most basic of things(like throwing items and backstepping). All that does is really slow the game down and it's a quick way of making things boring. If they're not gonna be given to you right off the bat, at the very least make it so that they're some of the first Skills you get, and quickly too. In my opinion, holding back basic functions isn't a practice in scaling, it's just annoying.
25. Each character would have one element and would stick to it. It annoys me how in most Tales games, characters who get associated with a specific element always have a handful of moves outside it. Now, I'm not saying that they can't have any no-element attacks, but like not have a repeat of a Fire swordsman having an Ice attack, alright?
26. Being able to adjust the size of your party is another feature that needs to become a mainstay. Also, no forced party members please. Story justification is another story though, I suppose.
27. Come to think of it, we haven't seen Rune Bottles in a long time. Please bring those back.
28. An expansion of the Style system from Innocence. Not only more slots for the various skills you get, but it'd be neat if each Style had a unique thing tied to it. My idea as it stands is that Advance Style gets Burst Artes, Guardian Style gets Parries, Wisdom Style gives you Summons, Technical Style gives you the ability to Dodge, Mystic Style gets Mystic Artes, and Versus Style gets everything and also Motion Canceller in exchange for a stiff breeze being able to kill you.
29. Were Linking to be a thing, I would not have its various mechanics tied to the same gauge as the character's' super modes. I would instead have the Link Gauge be its own thing, and when it reaches the end you either have the option of chaining a bunch of Linked Artes together, or doing a Dual MA. Maybe some sort of inbetween could be found, but it'd be weird to balance.
30. I suppose with the latest Tales games this does need to be stressed; Please make the game multiplayer friendly. Part of the fun in Tales is being able to play it with friends. So please make sure the mechanics and the camera are able to make multiplayer just as fun as single player.
31. Bring back renaming characters. Also implement a feature where we can rename attacks too.
32. While I would like Summons to be a thing, I'm not entirely sure about how they should be handled. Assuming this would be in a game where every character has one element, maybe make it like Eternia where they can have a summon or two as a super attack? Although I suppose the simplest thing would be to just have them as regular attacks or spells ala Phantasia or Xillia. Hmm, another idea maybe is to have them as regular attacks, but if you use them to activate an MA, you get a super version.
33. The game would have two protagonists to choose from, each with a story that's atleast 50% unique and each hero forming their own party. Throughout the adventure they form their own ideas about how to save the world, and by the end, when the Big Bad is defeated, the final boss is the other main party, and the result of the battle determines the ending you get.
34. I'd like for traditional cooking to make a comeback. I felt that ToI handled it well as most of the recipes were actually rather useful. Just make the ingredients cheap I guess.
35. Chats and battle banter are good. Keep those around.
36. Having finished Zestiria, making it so that attacks have both elements and categories is a fantastic idea. Let's keep that around. I also appreciated that, if an attack didn't have a category, it'd offer a different sort of bonus instead. By the way, the elements I'd want are Fire, Wind, Light, Dark, Lightning, Water, Earth, and Void. Much as I love Ice and Time, they can easily be fused into Water and Void, respectively. Sorry Eternia, but your system would be slightly too expansive in this case.
37. I feel sorry for some gamers, since I realized that in this game there'd be 3-6 gauges to keep your eye on. Those being HP, TP, Item, Accel, Link, and AC. The Link Gauge would also be a little more like the Eleth Gauge in ToGf. When it gets full and you hit the botton, the party auto-enters Overlimit and you can spam Link Artes, as well as do Linked Mystic Artes.
38. Being able to swap party members on the fly is a great feature that needs to stay. Although in the ideal game I have in mind it'd only be usable like 50% of the time. Such a shame, really.
39. With the item book being gone in ToZ, I want it to come back.
40. Lots of in-game costumes and attachments. I've noticed that they've been declining in number as the games go on. That needs to stop. Also, attachments having a point system is also stupid and needs to go. Infact, let us have four attachment slots instead of just three or less. I've had a ton of costume ideas that require a fourth piece that can never come to fruition because of it. Granted, I'm not sure how such details would work for a 2D game, but for a 3D one, keep this in mind.
41. Speaking of attachments, letting us recolor them is good. However, this feature needs to extend to the costumes as well. Let us color customize the characters so we can create our own recolors rather than only having one set one per character. This feature is definitely something a 2D game could use.
42. Online play would be nice. Even if it'd be hard to program for being able to play the plot with friends online, at the very least give us an online arena. That way people can just join a room and might monsters and bosses together.
43. Two new Styles to be added; EX Style which lets you do EX Attacks ala Street Fighter, and Assist Style, which lets you call Assists ala ToH.
44. More stuff from Zestiria: I like everyone having a support/healing set so that way there's no "main" healer, as it allows for more freedom in party building. Also, no forced party members. However, what I didn't like was how you couldn't heal a party if they were status'd(unless the spell also cured that status effect). The fatigue system was also interesting, but I'm not sure if I'd wanna keep it around, unless maybe we started getting Telepipes from PSO.
45. I'd want a variety of composers. Zestiria did good by bringing back Go Shiina, but I'd want it taken a step further by having a handful of composers like how Tales of VS. has. Motoi Sakuraba, Shinji Tamura, Ryota Furuya, Go Shiina, Kazuhiro Nakamura, Ryo Watanabe, Yukiko Yamamoto, LindaAI-CUE, and any other composers who've worked on the series are all welcome to return.
46. The Cameo Battle would be Reid, Garr, Hilda, and Mint, with the fight having a ton of references to the games they came from. Thank you for the inspiration, Abyss. Also, the 4 Boss cameos would be Walter, Asch, Schwann, Lambda!Richard. Thanks for that, ToV.
47. The return of WHIS. If there are any other minigames, make sure they don't suck.
48. Some other gameplay features: Personally I'm a sucker for dynamic kills on bosses and also story related cutscenes during battle. Zestiria brought these back, but I'd like to see them expanded upon a little. Also, make Taunting more practical by not only raising the gauges the character has, but also by increasing a stat(maybe rip off of SFIII: 3rd Strike and make them stack up to four times). Taunts aggroing opponents is also a given. I'd also suggest a replay editor, but that'd be more for 3D Tales I suppose.
49. Can't believe I nearly forgot this, but being able to program your AI like in the Radiant games and in Innocence is fantastic and needs to stay forever. Alfa-Systems had alot of great ideas, and they should get brought back to introduce even more. Only thing is, let all the options be available from the start, rather than unlocked over time.
50. Characters having unique taunts when facing particular bosses. Better to have them say something unique to their "rival" rather than just parroting the generic taunts over and over.
I might update this in the future, but this is all I can think of at the moment.